How Employee Research Helps Build a Resilient Workforce in the Construction Industry

Jeani Ringkob: Welcome to The Contractor's Daughter, your go-to podcast for eliminating random acts of strategy and marketing in your highway construction business. Hello, friends. I'm your host, Jeani Ringkob. I'm a third-generation asphalt contractor and an absolute brand strategy and marketing geek.

Welcome to The Contractor’s Daughter Podcast. I'm your host, Jeani Ringkob. If you were here last time, you were here for part one of an interview that ConEx author for all of their incredible, not all of their, but one of their incredible authors interviewed me and put together an incredible article.

We're going to link to the full article in the show notes, but Gregg did such a great job and he knew how to ask questions that really got me to dive in and tell some incredible stories that my team said, “We have to turn this into a podcast,” so that's what we did. So if you missed it, make sure that you're subscribed and you can go back and listen to part one of this episode.

But in today's episode, we've got a treat for you. If you follow me at all, you know that we have a Flywheel framework that we use when we're doing strategic planning for our clients, it starts with investigation, identify, and then it ends with implementation. That's an ongoing Flywheel process inside of your business.

Part of implementation that is so critical when it comes to workforce is how are we tracking success in recruiting the right talent to keep growing our business, and how are we tracking success and retention?

You might be blown away at exactly how much it's costing you to not have a team that's engaged, how much it might be costing you to spend more than you realize in advertising and attracting and trying to pull people into your business, especially if you're not finding really high-quality best-fit candidates for your business.

Also, you might be floored on how much opportunity costs you're leaving on the table. So we actually talk about some of the metrics that you might want to be tracking as you try to build a talent brand because in this era that we're in, it is not going to be like it was before ever again for workforce, and we're actually seeing that things are getting a little bit tighter even on the business development and the sales side and they're tight on the workforce side.

So really owners, leaders are getting pinched from two different sides. You want to figure out how you're going to really solve for success on both sides of the equation and we're talking about how to measure results with your recruitment and your retention efforts.

We even go so far in this episode to talk about talent branding and compare it to building a bigger brand and we actually even use examples, really great brands that you're going to know how they are building talent brands to give you some examples and maybe give you some inspiration for where you might want to take your talent brand.

Make sure that you go and take our Workforce Strategy Quiz. It's more of an assessment, but it really takes less than 10 minutes. It's going to help you figure out where you might need to be focusing and some of the deficits that you may have in your workforce strategy.

It only takes like maybe eight minutes max and it's going to give you a great place to start and tell you where you need to focus. You can grab that assessment over at storybuilt.marketing/workforce. But let's dive right in to these really great examples of tracking metrics and building a talent brand.

Gregg Wartgow: Now, in this research phase, the surveys, the interviews, all that stuff, interpreting and ingesting all that information, is that where you've mentioned a few times, Jeani, maybe really get some help from some marketing folks, or how do you put this thing together?

Jeani Ringkob: Right. I think definitely somebody who is aware of employer branding or talent branding, I think it's important. Part of the reason I've designed my business the way it is, we actually do growth strategy, strategic planning for our clients.

We have different areas and workforce is one of those large categories. Sometimes that is the primary focus area for a company because that's where their bottleneck is, or that's where their constraints are, which is where a lot of this experience has come from.

But there is some benefit in knowing what your strategic plan is and how fast you want to grow. If you're just a paver, but you're going to be acquiring a facility and you're going to be getting into production, all of those things will actually impact your workforce strategy too.

It's important to think about that and just be cognizant as you go into it, but definitely having somebody who understands employer branding, I think having some understanding of marketing because we can take so much of what marketing already does and some of the processes and systems and things that are so well understood by marketing teams and leverage them into recruiting.

If you have marketing and you're thinking about what's ROI on my marketing or you're investing in marketing externally and bringing them into your company and you're thinking about the ROI, why wouldn't you have them be working on not just client and partner facing but also workforce facing?

You've just doubled or tripled the ROI of that investment of time and energy right there because it's impacting your business on such a bigger way and they actually have a lot of information.

But you want them to understand employer branding, you want them to understand messaging, and you want them to be able to work with whoever's managing the larger strategy, growth planning strategy for the business, and HR.

They need to be collaborative because it needs to cross into other parts of the company. It impacts, operations, HR, the owners, and their strategic plans, all of those things get impacted.

Gregg Wartgow: Just cruising along here, I guess I had a note, maybe we could just provide a hypothetical or maybe real life example of how, maybe some information you gathered in that employee research phase, maybe would influence a specific recruitment tactic.

Jeani Ringkob: Oh, I think it influences all of them. I know we have an internal framework inside of our business that we've developed. It doesn't matter if we're designing workforce strategy, if we're strategic planning for an annual or quarter or anything. It always starts with investigation. Then the investigation moves you into identifying what is the priority?

You're going to find multiple things you could focus on during the investigation, but you have to prioritize the one that's going to get you the most result and the best strategy to move forward is to stop and identify and then implementation, which is where you get into the metrics and some of that stuff. We can talk about that in a minute.

The investigation piece is always to collect data, do research, surveys, interviews, however, you can collect real data. There are multiple types of data. You need some that's really hard data and you need some that's more intuitive and you need a nice well-rounded combination. It's so important.

The first thing that it dictates, and this feels a little bit intangible to a lot of people, but it's your messaging. The words we say matter. They matter all the time. That's the first thing that it informs.

But it informs onboarding and how you build a process for onboarding, and one of the things—I'll actually pull up the statistics on it because it's relevant. I have a presentation in front of me—but companies that implement onboarding processes, effective and strategic onboarding processes, and create employee onboarding processes, can improve retention by 82%.

Gregg Wartgow: Wow, okay.

Jeani Ringkob: Organizations with structured onboarding saw a 60% year-over-year improvement in revenue. New employees that have a good onboarding experience are 18 times more committed to their employer.

Gregg Wartgow: Wow, okay, so onboarding is important.

Jeani Ringkob: If we're doing any workforce strategy work with our clients, they will be implementing an incredible onboarding process. There's too much left on the table if we don't.

Typically, I mean, I usually have HR after that and operations all saying, “Oh, this is annoying when we rolled it out.” Like “Ugh, this is another thing.” But then I'm like, “Actually, it's easy.” You've constantly thought about how to make it easy. At every single point, we've found places to automate it, and it's making my life better.

My team gets more productive, quicker, they're happier, they're reducing retention, so you get everybody in the company on board pretty quickly once you start rolling this out.

So, onboarding. And employee development is another great area. It's going to actually give you information about what gaps in knowledge does your team have? Where do they want to go in their career in order to keep them, make them happy?

We want people to be more productive. We want people to be more efficient. We want them to be more engaged so we should be looking for what are those gaps and opportunities.

Are they struggling with staying focused during the week? Are they having too many interruptions? Do they need help creating an ideal week? Does your sales team need help learning how to integrate AI tools?

We're doing a workshop for a few clients right now and maybe doing a webinar on it, how do sales teams and estimators use AI? Not only what is appropriate, when is it appropriate to use it, but how can you use it to do better research, to be more efficient, to save time?

Those are things that you can glean from that, career planning, which I mentioned how do people typically want to advance in their career, and how should we as a company be facilitating that?

Strategic engagement, referral process is another thing. We build really great referral processes, and so much of that comes from the information that we get from them because when you're talking about incentives, compensation is huge.

We actually do compensation analysis and help people build better compensation packages. This is a great opportunity to figure out what motivates your employees because it's not always what you think it is and you can get pretty creative with compensation.

Gregg Wartgow: Awesome. Then the next question, how do you measure all this stuff to make sure what you're doing is working? You've got some examples maybe on both the recruitment and then the retention side of it, Jeani?

Jeani Ringkob: Yeah. It kind of depends on what you're working on. You always want a string that you can attach to the strategy, then the objective, then the key metrics that you're going to measure. You want to make sure they're all relevant.

You're always asking yourself, “Is this relevant to what we're trying to accomplish?” We're trying to recruit more of this specific type of person and you build it out from there.

But as it relates to this conversation, some of the things that come up, and if you start at the beginning and you think about recruitment, if it's social, what is the engagement? Is your existing team following your page? Are they sharing when you post about things, culture things, employee things, positions that are open? Are you getting shares? Are you getting likes? Things like that.

If you're building a nice careers landing page out, which I always say career landing pages are a little bit like job descriptions, like they're awful, they're just awful, they should be well dialed in on the sales page, which is what they are. There's a messaging framework to that and you are selling. Do not think that you are not selling. That is a sales page.

But how many people are landing on that page? If you're putting out ads, and if you're putting links back to that in social, if you're sharing that at different places, you're promoting it, all those things, you want to start tracking how many people were landing on it before? How many are landing there now?

One of the tools that I actually think, and when we talk about the specific marketing tools, it seems strange to a lot of people, but we always try to set up lead generators on that career landing page.

You're going to get people that come into the landing page that are starting to think about maybe making a transition or a move to a new career. Like I said, they're getting themselves to that 70% of understanding before they even want to talk to you or apply for the job.

Give them a resource right there. We did that TXAPA project. We did a whole career assessment and this team from all the surveys and the research, we knew one of the things that people were looking for was, “What does a career in highway infrastructure industry look like?”

I'm not sure what that looks like. First off, where do I fit? Then from there, how do I get somewhere else? We actually built persona avatars. We built four of them. I think it was like the Voyager, I can't remember them off the top of my head. It's an incredible website, webuildtexasroads.com I think is the website.

But take that quick assessment, we captured their email and contact information from that assessment, they'd opted in, they got results from it, and it gave them things like, “Well, here's potential career paths for you.”

If you're talking about getting them to that 70%, you've just given them 40% to 60% of the way there. That was a beefy lead magnet or lead generator. Then within we could actually start sending them emails with more information.

We could even specify, if they landed in a Voyager category, we could send them a sequence out that was specific about that, and maybe share stories about somebody in our company.

Then maybe it also talked about what we know is a common objection or concern that people may have. All of a sudden, you are moving them along and you're pulling them in and they're knowing you and they're getting to trust you and they're actually liking you. Once you've built those things, they're working for you all the time.

That would be an opt-in metric that you would be measuring if you set something like that up, then obviously applications is where all of those metrics would be earlier indicators. If you're seeing those increase, you're going to see your applications increase.

Then on the backside, you're measuring things like turnover, productivity in the company, which can be specific by specific departments or roles inside of the company.

Also, you can do satisfaction as part of your surveys that you're already doing when we talk about implementation, and how we build processes and systems. If we do one thing, can we actually get five benefits out of it? I'm always thinking about that. That's a great place to get satisfaction results from them and start measuring those over time.

Gregg Wartgow: Great. That covers both of the recruitment and retention angles of it. The next question, I feel like we talked about it, how you position your company as an employer, just like you'd be positioning your company's product or service. Did we talk about that?

Jeani Ringkob: I feel like it's an underlying theme of this whole mind shift. What we're talking about here, the whole thing is it's a paradigm shift on how we think about recruiting. Everything we know about recruiting and business developments, attracting clients, and having inbound leads for our business is the same and it's applicable to attracting talent.

As I say about this, you want to build an asset. Your messaging is an asset. Your social media is an asset. That landing page is an asset. That lead generator is an asset. Then the list of people that want to work for you, but haven't yet filled out an application, hopefully they start opting in and you have five, and then you have 20, and then you have 100, hopefully.

Then every time you have a position available, you just email your list, and then all of a sudden, instead of it taking you two weeks—which could be another metric that you're tracking—instead of it taking two weeks for you to fill a position, maybe it's taking you four days. What does that do in operations and productivity?

That's one way to think about it. So it is very much that. But also, if you think that, first off, your brand is how you're perceived in the hearts and the minds. People are loyal to either Samsung or Apple. Those are products.

Same thing can be true, they can become loyal advocates of being an employee or wanting to work for your company and then being an employee of your company. That is a product and an asset that your company owns.

If I look at two companies as a purchaser, you're trying to sell your company and somebody's built this really robust talent brand, and they have tools, processes, and automations that they built in and they're consistently getting high-quality employees, especially in an industry like this.

I look at a company that's almost exactly the same, doing the same thing, serving the same market, but they've not done that. They've been that one that we talked about early on in our conversation that said, "I don't really need that stuff. Marketing is for other industries. It's for other companies. I don't need to market for employees. You need my employees to be better.”

Which one am I going to pay a premium for? This for business owners has been like a moment where they go, “Oh, yeah. As I'm thinking about succession, legacy planning, where are we going to take this thing?” I'm paying a serious premium for the one that has that asset built in, especially moving forward in the market.

Gregg Wartgow: Okay. Good. You mentioned it's maybe a good thing to even look outside your own industry. Do you have an example of a company in a different industry that we could just throw in as an example?

Jeani Ringkob: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm a geek about this stuff. I'm always reading and studying. That's one of the benefits. My clients get to borrow my geekiness about this stuff and they don't have to go be a geek about it. But I'll give you a couple of really good ones.

Somebody I follow—and I can't believe it—his name is [Jesse] Cole. He's the owner of The Savannah Bananas. I'm not really a baseball person. My husband is a baseball person. I enjoy going and getting some sun and drinking some beer. That's my primary motivation to go to a baseball game.

But I have told my husband on my bucket list, “I want to go to a Savannah Bananas minor league baseball game.” It is hard to get tickets. Hard. They're sold out. We're not going this year, they're sold out.

But Jesse Cole wears yellow from head to toe, every day, hats, the yellow suit, has a closet full of them actually so he's very committed, but you can actually find the Reels on social media if you follow him where he talks about his talent brand.

Part of the reason that they are sold out is the revenue side, that's the profit side. But part of that, that would never exist, even though he has great ideas, it never would exist without the team and the employees that he has built and put together.

He's very, very passionate about that. He talks about that. One of the things he said in the recent Reel I saw of his is, “I don't care about their resume. I would rather ask them to produce a future resume. It's actually an exercise that they have their team do or they have applicants submit.”

”I want to see your future resume. What would your future resume look like in five years?” That's what he wants to see. I think that is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. That is a total mind shift.

He talks about those things. How does somebody who's looking for a job that might fall into that category, how excited are they getting to work for somebody like that, day in and day out? That's exciting, that's motivating. Savannah Bananas, absolutely watch them. I hope to get to a game.

Lego is another great company that I've read some case studies on. They have actually a documentary on Lego. It's great. It's one of my favorite brands. But they do a great job. I point them out because in their strategic planning, they are very good at it, and this is something that when we're doing strategic planning is one of my primary focuses is how can I do this like Lego and translate.

You have a vision at the top of your company. But I want the janitor in that company to know what that vision is, to know what the objective in his specific department is, and what his specific metrics are that move that objective and accomplish it because if that one gets moved, one above it gets moved, the one above it, and then all of a sudden, you're actually reaching all the goals and the objectives of the company.

They are incredible with that and that's highly relevant when you can do that inside of your company and that's something that you're doing for strategic planning, for strategic growth on a much bigger scale.

That's something that the owner and the president are really focused on. But getting your whole team on board is the secret sauce to companies that are unbeatable. Who doesn't want to work for a company like that?

You'll attract the right ones because they'll know who you are and the right people are going to be attracted to that. That's one of my favorite brands. Starbucks is another great one.

Not everybody loves that brand, but if you do, you do. They are notorious for doing incredible things for their team. They consider everybody that works there an artist. They don't just consider them employees. They offer things like college tuition. They offer really competitive benefits.

But what you'll notice about that is who do they want to come in and be a barista? Who's the ideal avatar employee for them? You know what? For that ideal avatar that they've done a lot of work identifying, college tuition is super relevant.

In certain companies, that's not relevant because you're trying to target somebody in their 40s. They don't care, college is done. If another company offered that, it could not hit home at all and not provide value towards building that brand and creating incentives and compensation for employees.

They know who their target audience is even for their workforce. They've done a great job, obviously, with their customers, but they've translated that into their workforce very well as well.

Another one would be L'Oréal. They've actually built really great internal processes for collecting data, collecting information, and understanding, having their thumb on the pulse of their workforce constantly, they have a lot of good processes internally.

They're also known for being very vocal about what the brand is passionate about, and that attracts the people that they want on their team. They lead with that in a lot of their marketing material, and that's helped them attract the people they want to attract as well.

Gregg Wartgow: Okay. Awesome. Great examples. I think if I counted it right, there are four?

Jeani Ringkob: Yeah. Four of them. They come from a variety of businesses. Look for inspiration in other places and you may see something that you say, “Wow, that is brilliant.”

For example, Starbucks, that's brilliant. Maybe it's not relevant for me, but it might get you thinking, "Hmm, how can I replicate that and make it relevant to my business and my team and my workforce and our strategic goals?" It might be the inspiration you need.

Gregg Wartgow: Yeah, because when you shared that on Starbucks, I just got to thinking back earlier in our discussion when you were talking about understanding what matters and what motivates and what really resonates with your ideal employee.

In Starbucks's case, it's tuition because clearly, they want probably people in their early 20s or late teens.

Jeani Ringkob: Right. My daughter is planning, she's like she can't wait until she can work for Starbucks.

Gregg Wartgow: That’s awesome.

Jeani Ringkob: She is counting the days until she is eligible.

Gregg Wartgow: Last question, and I've kept you over the hour, but I think this will be a really quick one.

Jeani Ringkob: I'm good for a few. We're good.

Gregg Wartgow: Okay, good. Just this whole idea of putting these stories together. Sometimes I see companies promote like their “meet so-and-so from our team,” is that the type of stories you're talking about, or maybe a little more insights on that? Then I think we'll probably be good to go.

Jeani Ringkob: I think your question was, “Do you feature individuals?” or do you just say, “Our company has had X number of employees stay for 10 years”? It's a little bit more general. Both are relevant. Both are absolutely relevant.

How do you do this? That is the biggest thing. This is not easy to implement. You talk about this stuff in a silo. Everybody goes in and makes these plans at least once a year, but actually getting that into, “Okay, what are we doing this quarter? What are we doing this month? What are we doing in the next two weeks?” That’s great.

What needs to happen? So We're not losing sight of what's important. One year later you go, “Oh, we intended to tell some great great stories about our employees and our team, but we just didn't do it. We didn't get it done because we were busy working on other things.”

I say, my first advice for this is, yes, they're relevant. There's a really great book—I'm going to talk about a few things here—the element of the story. The story is really important here. Telling a story is important.

A great thing to help you understand the elements of the story, break it down so it's really easy to understand is Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. It's an incredible resource. I reference it. We use it. I'm certified and I'm part of their community.

Some of my best peers are from that community. He runs an incredible business. But that framework is great. I think it's seven elements. It's super digestible for somebody to take and understand. It can give your team a common language for storytelling.

What goes into that, in order to get to execution, though, my tip is the quarterly plan. Know what your objectives are, but you have to sit down and quarterly plan. With our clients, we actually revamp their quarterly strategy on a high level all the time, including any marketing initiatives if we're in charge of that.

So, we're looking at that. When you get really down to the nitty gritty for our clients that we're managing that piece for, we actually create a quarterly content calendar. Your content is already planned.

It might not be created, but you know, and this is great because when we have the safety awareness weeks, when you have certain relevant things, you don't forget about them, they're planned out. It's actually planned out in a calendar and you kind of know. Then we're meeting with them monthly or bi-weekly and we're making sure that content is getting created.

Who on your team is responsible for that? So they may know, “Okay, well, in our next two weeks' sprint, we want to do some stories and we've already been generating an idea list about somebody in our company, John, Jose, or Susan, or whatever,” and they've got a really cool story and we already wrote them down, they're in our idea bank already.

We're going to go out, we're going to be out on the project, we're going to just record a nice little video, and here's the next tip. When you get down to that, do candid and authentic. Everybody likes to spend a lot of money and make these beautiful videos. I would say there's a time and a place for it, but just done is better than not done.

80% but done, that's great. I will take it. People want candid and authentic. People are engaging better. They're sick of the overproduced stuff. Look at the things your kids are watching, I’m like, “I can't believe this. Really?” They just want candid and authentic.

I have a peer of mine. We're getting ready to do a webinar. I think it's July 11th on LinkedIn and we're going to actually map out. People can show up and we're going to give them some tools and some resources and we're like, “All right, take this time and we're going to try to get as close to 90 days of content for your business as you can. We're going to bust this out right now and that work is done. We call it like a done in a day. Start like a low session. We're going to give you a couple of templates and tools to do it.”

But one of the guests that I may have come in and talked to there, is a friend of mine who has built a candid content framework. When it comes to talent branding, candid content is the best. She has this incredible framework that translates over to that.

It helps you sit down, and ahead of time, pull out the stories that are really authentic and relatable. All of a sudden when you're sitting there going, “I have nothing to say on social,” or, “I don't know what we're going to talk about or what stories we're going to tell us. It's so overwhelming,” if you go through that and like she and I are doing it, we're having a session where we're doing it specifically for me and my brand because it's helpful for me to sit down and do it.

We're going to have so many ideas. I'll have a year's worth of candid, authentic content. That doesn't mean it's created, that means I look at it and I say, “I'm going to tell these two stories this week and I may just get in front of a camera and make my kids interview me about it.”

Who knows? But people really engage with that. Those are the things that I would say, make sure you're quarterly planning and let it be authentic and tell those stories. Show your employees. Put their faces on. Get them to consent, obviously. I had a client of mine that had an over $250,000 in deed budget and over 40% turnover rate when they came to me. Terrifying, really disastrous.

One of the things that owners were adamant about was that, “We will not show our employees' faces or names. Absolutely not. Nope. We were not even up for discussion.” They're like, “They're going to steal our employees.” I'm like, “Your employees are leaving like they're just jumping off a sinking ship. What are you worried about? Seriously, that's what you're worried about?”

If they're like, “Who cares, you're going to lose some,” yeah, somebody may come and steal an employee because they said, “If somebody is sitting around stalking your Facebook because they want to steal employees, let them. If they're that desperate, let them go.”

If you want your employees to be loyal, if you're sharing their stories, they're probably more loyal to you anyway. Let your people be the star of the show. Everybody wants to be a hero. That's one of the things we need to understand about the story. Let your team be the heroes of your company. This story will resonate with the future heroes of your company.

Gregg Wartgow: Maybe it would be helpful, Jeani, if you can agree, what would maybe be an example of a story, would it be like how a certain individual got into the industry or how they've advanced in the industry? What would be an example?

Jeani Ringkob: Yeah, that's a great one. Tell about their background. One of the things that really resonates—and this is a good story tip—is what was the challenge? What were they dissatisfied with? What was their pain point or their problem before they came and worked for you? Did they not have flexibility?

I've seen great interviews of those who didn't have flexibility with their kids, but they found a company that they could even work out in the field, but they formed a program where they could tag out with somebody else who had a family to help each other out, cross train into positions so that they could do something like that. It meant the world to them so they did it.

I'll refer again to that webuildtexasroads.com website. We did a video that we scripted and we used actual employees from member companies, those are some of the things I said we didn't want actors and they didn't want actors. They wanted authenticity, like, “This is who we are.”

The video was a great example of storytelling. This one is highly polished because it's the main video of the campaign. But the stories, somebody said like, “I just wasn't college bound. I'd seen my mom have success in this industry and I knew I could build a career here.”

That's compelling and it takes just a few seconds to talk about something that started somewhere. This is [inaudible] advance in the company and they help me do it. They sit down with me and talk to me about how I want to build a career.

Then little things, celebrate their birthdays, celebrate it when your sales team hits a huge milestone. Those are super simple short things. First off, it creates loyalty to your brand from your existing team because they want to be recognized and put out there.

But then also it helps other people say, "Hey, this is a company that would remember my birthday." Guess what? If you post about their birthday, they're probably going to share that on their network.

All of this stuff hooks together and builds off of each other. It's work in the beginning, but then you build momentum and you have this incredible asset and brand inside of your company that is attracting the people that you want to build your business with.

All right, that was part two of this incredible interview. Make sure that you go over to ConExpo site. We have the link to this article there. After you read this article, make sure you look at some of the other incredible content. They have resources for owners, leaders, operational managers, all different levels of your organization.

ConExpo is way more than just an incredible event. They have incredible resources housed on that page. So make sure you go over to ConExpo, their news site, and we're going to have the link directly to this article and you'll be able to find some more content to really fill you up and give you some great ideas.

Also, do not forget to go take that workforce assessment, less than 10 minutes and you're going to know very clearly what are the gaps in my workforce strategy because you cannot afford to not be attracting the right talent effectively so you're not wasting time and resources.

Also, we want to retain that top talent. We want to build a highly efficient team that is the best fit and they're going to stick with us for the long haul. So go over there to storybuilt.marketing/workforce. Take that assessment now.

When you take the assessment, we're going to talk you through some of the results but also you're going to get an opportunity, if you want to, you can actually get on my calendar and we'll pull up your specific assessment and I'll give you some ideas about what I'm seeing, what some of the ideas and areas you might want to focus.

If you want, we can even pull up our Workforce ROI Calculator and we can help you really figure out what is it costing you to recruit, what is turnover costing you, and what is opportunity cost costing you? So that you can really know exactly how good or where you need to plug the vote when it comes to workforce, and make sure that you're getting effective strategy in place, you're getting an ROI for your efforts, and you're building this workforce talent brand inside of your business. Make sure you subscribe and we will see you next time.

Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of The Contractor's Daughter. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe and review. But most of all, share this with all of your friends, partners, and customers in the highway construction business. Thank you for building the infrastructure that we all rely on.